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Sunday Chat: 9 PM ET Pet Loss Support
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Posted by Martisimo on March 03, 2003 at 09:49:48:
In Reply to: Re: WEIGHT LOSS-Possibly Heart? posted by walkssoftly on March 01, 2003 at 10:11:10:
Okay. Well, this vet sounds much better.
Yes, yes, yes to starting a cat with a "significant murmur" on heart meds straight away. No reason to wait for the ECG or ultrasound. Yes to the antihistimine to stimulate appetite, it often does the trick, not always, but definitely the thing to try if a cat isn't eating. There still could be something else going on, so I would do the bloodwork again, but might put it off for 2-4 weeks, seeing how much the heart meds help.
A cardiac ultrasound would be more accurate than the ECG, but more expensive, as you pointed out. What this will do is give the doctor a picture of the heart and exactly where the valve problem (or problems, because once one valve starts messing up, it often leads the opposite one to as well) is, you know, which chambers. It might show some other things too, like fluid building up in the chest cavity or the heart enlargement (which I can't remember if it showed on the x-rays) which usually will happen with a "significant heart murmur", and how the enlargement is or isn't affecting surrounding tissues and organs (like, is it pressing on the lungs or trachea?).
The ECG is less expensive but not as accurate. It can diagnose which valves have the problem by a cardiologist "listening" to the heart beats and looking at a chart of the readings the beats give to a machine. Usually these are done in smaller clinics with a phone line and transmitted to the cardiologist to read. There is no picture involved. Often the x-rays go together with the ECG for the doctor to make an offical diagnosis. Many animals are diagnosed this way without ever having an ultrasound. The second doctor may have suggested the ultrasound because the murmur is so loud, yet perhaps the x-rays were inconclusive or didn't show anything when they normally should have with such a loud murmur.
The ECG or ultrasound is to make a definitive diagnosis of exactly what kind of heart condition is causing the murmur. There are a few that cats suffer from. Most of the medications are the same, so to some people further testing is pointless, but there are different things for the different conditions that you, as the owner, can expect to watch him for and not be shocked at when or if they happen. A couple of these things that may happen can be treated if he's taken in right away, and some of them can't be at all.
I would have one or the other of the two procedures done, but which one is up to your finances. I'm in a similar situation with my new kitten. One doctor heard a very obvious, loud heart murmur, but another vet friend of mine didn't hear it AT ALL. They were both very sure. I trust both vets, so I'm kind of confused! If yet another doctor does hear it this week I'm having the ultrasound done and starting medications, because he's so young and is completely asymptomatic right now, the medicine can help him a lot. I also want to know what I can expect, because things like collapse or sudden, painful paralysis can happen at any time, and I want to be aware of everything.
In an older cat that is showing the effects of something already, an owner may have a different prespective. My old dog died in October, probably from his heart. He had a grade 4 or 5 murmur and was diagnosed 6 months before and showed symptoms and was on meds for about four months, he had ALL the tests. His was quite progressive and all the money didn't do anything much to change the course of things, but it does give me a certain peace to know I tried everything. So, obviously, each person must make their choice based on their animal and what they can do reasonably.
:Hi.. Color me confused...I posted last night the update on Stinky, but.. don't see it here this a.m.!?? I saw it last night! *sigh* Maybe I was dreamin', ha...
: Well, I'm not quite sure what to hit for "updates"to ya'll.. So maybe I did it wrong? Anyway, I'll kind of repeat myself..
: I took Stinky to the vet that I used to take my white boxer Tuff to. The Vet checked Stinky physically, and then he gave me the stethascope to listen to Stinky's heart.. He said that he has a very significan heart murmur. Said that if money was not an issue, he'd like to run the blood tests over again. I told him whatever he thought was best.. but then he decided that it's obvious that the heart seems to be the problem. He gave Stinky fluids, a vitamin shot, pills to entice him to eat, (an antihistamine actually, but he said is stimulates them to eat) and stated that maybe we could be "ahead of the game" by starting him on heart meds.., and see how he does. He said to make sure he EATS and DRINKS. Stinky did eat when he got home, just as he did when the other vet gave him that vitamin shot.. Then he went back and hid in a dark corner again. Seems to me that he is not taking in fluids again. I've been watching him, that really worries me. I am temporarily in a wheelchair and it's hard to get to the store, so I have someone that will be picking up the heart meds for me this a.m. I'm waiting anxiously for them. The vet said that his ultra sound cardiologist will be in on friday. The ultra sound is between 250 and 300. I guess I'll just keep a close eye on him, and see how he reacts to the meds in the next few days. Not sure what if anything they will be able to do for him, when they find out what's going on with the heart. The echocardiogram was going to be 189.00 at the other vets.. but this new vet seems to think that the ultra sound is more accurate... Any input from ya'll on that? Obviously, money weighs in here. I don't want to be sucked in to something that isn't necessary. Yet no matter what it takes, I will do what is best for my Stinkster... HE is most important at this point..
: Any input and opinions would greatly be appreciated..I thank both of you for helping. It's so good to hear from others that have knowledge about these things... Thank you very much..
:sincerely,
:Walkssoftly<~~~frettin' momma............
: ::If there is a feline only vet in your area, I would go there. Very often they have so much more experience in things that can go wrong with cats. If you have a veterinary college within driving distance, this is another option to take. ::Good luck. Keep us posted.
::
::This does sound strange to me. Perhaps you should go to a different vet, totally unrelated to your vet. Like Martisimo, I find it strange that a cat could lose so much weight and not show something in the blood tests.
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