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Posted by walkssoftly on March 05, 2003 at 20:14:45:
In Reply to: Re: WEIGHT LOSS-Possibly Heart? posted by Martisimo on March 04, 2003 at 12:29:52:
Thanks for all this info.. And you are very right.. If the Dr. thinks that this is cardiomyopathy, then I agree that it is best to let him go there.... IF they feel that he will be ok, then that's great.. But I don't want to see him waste away. He means too much to me. He is walking around, eating, and drinking, but I think if I didn't give him the antihistamine to stimulate his appetite, that he might not eat. Sometimes he is very quiet, and wants to be near me, but doesn't want to be touched... Other times he flops on my lap and rolls upside down and loves being pet.. He is not himself.. I know that.. Last night he suprised me by getting playful when we were going to bed.. Chasing my hand under the covers... :Anyway, it sounds like your vet thinks Stinky might have cardiomypathy since he has warned you about sudden paralysis. This is ususally quite painful (cardiomyopathy paralysis). If this happens, or if Stinky begins to have difficulty breathing comfortably, please don't let him go in his sleep, take him to the vet to let him go gently and not struggle until the end. I thought I was going to be lucky with my old dog, that I would be able to watch him go slowly downhill and I would be able to see when he began to not enjoy life and be able to make the choice to spare him the rest, but instead he went while I was at work unexpectedly. It sounds weird, but I'm sad I didn't get to spare him the last moments, that he didn't just get to fall asleep. :Are you still having the ECG run? If Stinky gets better after taking him off the first medicine, ask your doctor about trying a different one. ::Glad that you are having your kitty checked.. I sure know what you mean about leaving them.. I had a persian that I had to leave, he had a problem with stones... and while he was in there for that, he caught an upper resperitory infection from another cat that was in the vets cages... I had no idea he had... I took him home, and he infected my other cat... I nearly lost both of them, my vet bills were outrageous.... I was pretty upset when I took them in, and the vet said to me that he no doubt caught the upper resperitory infection from another cat they had in there..!!! Seems to me, that this is pretty unfair, that they should at LEAST have given me a break with the cost.. as it was their negligence that caused both my animals to become ill... They just said it's "airborne" and nothing they could have done to keep him from getting it... BULL! I say... As if that animal was known to be contagious, it should have been isolated.. Ah well... :: :::Taking my kitten in for a cardiac workup on Wednesday. But first, I requested another doctor to listen to him first to see what they hear. The ultrasound will come later, depending on what these tests find. :::It's one of those things where I have to drop him off in the morning and pick him up after work. I worked at a vet clinic for seven years and I know it's all fine, but still hate dropping him off! ::::Martisimo! Thank you sooooo much for all that information! omgosh! I just found it here. I must learn how to post correctly, as I don't want to miss such important info. ever again. :::: :::::Yes, yes, yes to starting a cat with a "significant murmur" on heart meds straight away. No reason to wait for the ECG or ultrasound. Yes to the antihistimine to stimulate appetite, it often does the trick, not always, but definitely the thing to try if a cat isn't eating. There still could be something else going on, so I would do the bloodwork again, but might put it off for 2-4 weeks, seeing how much the heart meds help. :::::A cardiac ultrasound would be more accurate than the ECG, but more expensive, as you pointed out. What this will do is give the doctor a picture of the heart and exactly where the valve problem (or problems, because once one valve starts messing up, it often leads the opposite one to as well) is, you know, which chambers. It might show some other things too, like fluid building up in the chest cavity or the heart enlargement (which I can't remember if it showed on the x-rays) which usually will happen with a "significant heart murmur", and how the enlargement is or isn't affecting surrounding tissues and organs (like, is it pressing on the lungs or trachea?). :::::The ECG is less expensive but not as accurate. It can diagnose which valves have the problem by a cardiologist "listening" to the heart beats and looking at a chart of the readings the beats give to a machine. Usually these are done in smaller clinics with a phone line and transmitted to the cardiologist to read. There is no picture involved. Often the x-rays go together with the ECG for the doctor to make an offical diagnosis. Many animals are diagnosed this way without ever having an ultrasound. The second doctor may have suggested the ultrasound because the murmur is so loud, yet perhaps the x-rays were inconclusive or didn't show anything when they normally should have with such a loud murmur. :::::The ECG or ultrasound is to make a definitive diagnosis of exactly what kind of heart condition is causing the murmur. There are a few that cats suffer from. Most of the medications are the same, so to some people further testing is pointless, but there are different things for the different conditions that you, as the owner, can expect to watch him for and not be shocked at when or if they happen. A couple of these things that may happen can be treated if he's taken in right away, and some of them can't be at all. :::::I would have one or the other of the two procedures done, but which one is up to your finances. I'm in a similar situation with my new kitten. One doctor heard a very obvious, loud heart murmur, but another vet friend of mine didn't hear it AT ALL. They were both very sure. I trust both vets, so I'm kind of confused! If yet another doctor does hear it this week I'm having the ultrasound done and starting medications, because he's so young and is completely asymptomatic right now, the medicine can help him a lot. I also want to know what I can expect, because things like collapse or sudden, painful paralysis can happen at any time, and I want to be aware of everything. :::::In an older cat that is showing the effects of something already, an owner may have a different prespective. My old dog died in October, probably from his heart. He had a grade 4 or 5 murmur and was diagnosed 6 months before and showed symptoms and was on meds for about four months, he had ALL the tests. His was quite progressive and all the money didn't do anything much to change the course of things, but it does give me a certain peace to know I tried everything. So, obviously, each person must make their choice based on their animal and what they can do reasonably. ::::: :::::: :::::::If there is a feline only vet in your area, I would go there. Very often they have so much more experience in things that can go wrong with cats. If you have a veterinary college within driving distance, this is another option to take. :::::::Good luck. Keep us posted. :::::: ::::: :::: ::: :: :
Thanks again for listening and giving me insight...
I so appreciate it!
K<~~keeping the faith....
:Re: Upper respiratory infections. Depending on the virus, some cats are carriers of certain viruses and can go around without showing symptoms. Stress (like going to the vet,changes in the household) can cause symptoms to flare up. There really isn't a way for vets to prevent some viruses like these, perhaps if they did catch it from another cat, that cat was showing no indications that it even had anything.
:: My Stinky seems to have taken a turn for the worse... I'm crushed... Just in the last two hours... he started meowing.. he doesn't "talk" for just any reason.... so something is bothering/hurting? him... He was also licking like maybe he was going to get sick or something? But did not... He cried and I picked him up... he did not want to be held... and finally went off and hid in a cardboard box.. he seemed to be in a rush to do it also.. ':o[ He has been staying under things, but not so completely hidden... but he is now... I called the vet to see what to think... or to expect... He said to stop the heart meds.. (Diltiazem 30 mg) and see if that makes him change.. As he said he may be having a reaction to the meds... So I will not give him his nightime dosage... I just pray if God takes him, he does it in his sleep... I do not want to see him suffer... If I only knew wether I should just let the vet to let him go... or.. just wait and do the ultra sound... Just such hard decisions... Knowing me, unless he gets much worse, I will go ahead with the test... He means way more to me than the money, that is for sure!
:: Well, just thought I should update you.. The vet said if he goes downhill, he will like maybe become paralyzed, or have a stroke... *sigh* This sucks... ':o( But will wait to see how he is.. meanwhile, he WAS eating... and drinking water again..
::Ok, just rambling now.. off I go to peek in on him. I just don't want to disturb him and cause him to hide where I can't find him to make sure he's ok..
::Ciao!
::K<~~~just saw Stinky come out! Going to coax him to eat w/ Fake crabmeat! ";o]
:::: All that you said is so very important to me. At least now I understand the two different tests better! The ECG was 189. and the Ultra Sound 250 - 300. And I'm like you in the aspect that even if I spend that much, at least I will know that I made every effort to help him. I so love him, and would never want to just send him "to rainbow bridge" if I didn't absolutely have to. 10 yr just isn't all that old for a cat...
:::: He is still moving slowly around, hides most of the time... in the same spot, so at least I can ck in on him. And... he is eating, and now drinking water too.. *WHEW* I do believe the pills are helping his appetite. as if I don't give them, he doesn't come out to eat as often.. It's so strange, as he was just running around and acting like a wildman on month ago.. Just went downhill extremely fast...
:::: I am giving the heart meds, and am going to give him a few days to see how he does...
:::: Again. Bless you for all the information. Sure makes it easier to think about what I need to do.
:::: Gosh, I hope that your kitten does not have this.. Hopeing and praying that the 2nd vet heard right.. Keep us posted...
::::These "furkids"..... so much like our "skin" kids... lol.. Our babies...
::::K<~~~going to grow a money tree! Yipes!
:::::Okay. Well, this vet sounds much better.
::::::Hi.. Color me confused...I posted last night the update on Stinky, but.. don't see it here this a.m.!?? I saw it last night! *sigh* Maybe I was dreamin', ha...
:::::: Well, I'm not quite sure what to hit for "updates"to ya'll.. So maybe I did it wrong? Anyway, I'll kind of repeat myself..
:::::: I took Stinky to the vet that I used to take my white boxer Tuff to. The Vet checked Stinky physically, and then he gave me the stethascope to listen to Stinky's heart.. He said that he has a very significan heart murmur. Said that if money was not an issue, he'd like to run the blood tests over again. I told him whatever he thought was best.. but then he decided that it's obvious that the heart seems to be the problem. He gave Stinky fluids, a vitamin shot, pills to entice him to eat, (an antihistamine actually, but he said is stimulates them to eat) and stated that maybe we could be "ahead of the game" by starting him on heart meds.., and see how he does. He said to make sure he EATS and DRINKS. Stinky did eat when he got home, just as he did when the other vet gave him that vitamin shot.. Then he went back and hid in a dark corner again. Seems to me that he is not taking in fluids again. I've been watching him, that really worries me. I am temporarily in a wheelchair and it's hard to get to the store, so I have someone that will be picking up the heart meds for me this a.m. I'm waiting anxiously for them. The vet said that his ultra sound cardiologist will be in on friday. The ultra sound is between 250 and 300. I guess I'll just keep a close eye on him, and see how he reacts to the meds in the next few days. Not sure what if anything they will be able to do for him, when they find out what's going on with the heart. The echocardiogram was going to be 189.00 at the other vets.. but this new vet seems to think that the ultra sound is more accurate... Any input from ya'll on that? Obviously, money weighs in here. I don't want to be sucked in to something that isn't necessary. Yet no matter what it takes, I will do what is best for my Stinkster... HE is most important at this point..
:::::: Any input and opinions would greatly be appreciated..I thank both of you for helping. It's so good to hear from others that have knowledge about these things... Thank you very much..
::::::sincerely,
::::::Walkssoftly<~~~frettin' momma............
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:::::::This does sound strange to me. Perhaps you should go to a different vet, totally unrelated to your vet. Like Martisimo, I find it strange that a cat could lose so much weight and not show something in the blood tests.
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